Talking about separation and divorce

an unhappy familyAnne Cantelo, the author of It's No Big Deal Really, recently held a web chat on our Separation and Divorce message board. She looks at the issues surrounding breaking up

Fathers' rights

Is there an ideal amount of contact, especially staying contact that courts will give dads? My friend's ex currently has the children every other weekend but is trying to see them for an extra couple of hours each time and she is unhappy with it. He can't seem to find any guidelines on the amount of time. Perhaps there aren't any?
writergal

Anne: I'm not an expert on the law but I don't believe there are guidelines. I think both he and his ex should be thinking about what's right for the children and not what they as parents are entitled to. Parents don't have a moral right to their children; children have a moral right to their parents, both their parents.

I believe that children have a right to see both their parents the same amount (unless there are problems of abuse or addiction). That can be difficult to arrange but certainly any parent who tries to limit contact with the other parent, or makes it difficult (without very good reason) is being very unfair on their children.

In my research, those mothers (usually mothers) who've behaved like that eventually find that it comes back to bite them. Children judge mothers very harshly if they act as gate keeper to their father, whatever they say now and however much propaganda is used.

Eventually, children will be able to look back and see what actually happened for themselves. Your friend may not win anything by going back to court (and that will be expensive and potentially cause additional conflict with his ex and therefore distress for the children).

I believe it would be better for him to work out why his ex wants to restrict contact. Is it because the children are attending clubs that are important to them? Are there other practical issues? How young are the children (if very young they shouldn't be taken away from their attachment figure for long periods)?

Has the mother defined herself so much by being a mother that she hates the thought of losing the children for several hours in the day? Are the children uncomfortable for some reason at your friends? Tell him not to get defensive if this is the case, it's very common for little things to upset children and once you know about them you can address them.

Get your friend to sit down and have a non-confrontation discussion with his ex (away from the ears of the children) to find out how they can jointly ensure they meet the moral rights of their children in a way that suits everyone better.

Mid-divorce

My ex and I separated in August this year and we're mid-divorce and waiting for the decree nisi to be issued. Things have been as amicable as they could have been as there was someone else involved and I'm still hurting. We have a two-year-old son who we both absolutely adore. On a day-to-day basis he's a good father.

Currently, I work three days a week and since he doesn't have a full-time job (he works on and off), he's been looking after our son at those times. He also has him for a full daytime (not overnight stays as yet - they're planned to start once a month on either a Saturday or Sunday every week).

He's barely paying me any maintenance even when he has money to (we're talking £20 a month here) so I I've had to take on extra work to do from home to keep us afloat. However, yesterday he decided to ask ME for money!

He says because he's with our son three days a week and buys nappies to keep at his then I should be giving him a percentage of the child benefit and child tax credits! I told him he could forget it as a) I always send him over with a fully stocked change bag (nappies, wipes, nappy sacks, spare clothes, toys etc) so the fact he uses ones he's bought instead is his choice not because of me and b) Our son lives with me permanently, he's a non-resident parent so should be paying me money not asking me for it!

I guess my questions are firstly, am I right? And secondly, how do I handle this so the atmosphere doesn't affect our little man?
scrummy_mummy

Anne: I believe that legally it's recognised that the person who gives the children their primary residence is entitled to the extra cost of that in maintenance payments.

However, I don't really believe in the idea of primary residence as I believe that in order for a child to enjoy the company of both their parents they both need to provide a home for the child.

If you go to the law to sort this out you could end up paying a fortune and making things very messy between you. At the moment the fact that your ex is co-operative means that you don't have to pay high child care costs etc. and I wouldn't risk that as well as risking upsetting your child.

To resolve this (and make sure you don't create an atmosphere) the financial settlement needs be something that you both think is fair (that way there is no bitterness).

So what's fair? As you are both caring for your child a similar amount of time you should share the cost of your child equally. Write down your income because of the child (e.g. benefits) your outgoings and those of your ex.

What is the real impact of the child on that? How much are your living costs higher because you're living in a larger place than you would otherwise be? Do you really need to live in that place (for the sake of the child) or could you downsize?

Try not to get into an argument about nappies (the fact he doesn't use the ones you provide reduces the number you buy and just like you he has the right to choose what he wants for his child). Simply try to work out the sums so that you can both see who is paying for what and where the imbalance (if any) might be.

Do all this away from the ears of your child. You don't want him to think he's a financial burden.

Helping children cope with separation

My partner of seven years and I have decided to separate. We have two children aged two and four years old. Fortunately we both have the kids' best interests at heart and we will try and keep everything amicable for now and in the future with regards to parenting, access etc.

Our main concern is our bright four-year-old daughter. She is very close to her dad and we just have no idea on the best way to broach the subject with her? At the moment we have the house on the market which will take many months to sale, so we are playing 'happy families' until then.

The only thing she will have picked up on is that daddy sleeps in a different room but she hasn't questioned this. She's known it as daddy's room since he started sleeping in there three months back to recover from an operation, he just never moved back in! She runs in there every morning for a 10-minute snuggle with him and it's become a normal thing now.

How can we explain the changes that will be happening in the future (separating,moving house and starting pre-school) without breaking our little girl's heart?
kettlechip

Anne: At this age, I think you're right to wait until you're physically separating: I would suggest you wait until you?ve exchanged on your new house so that she has a couple of weeks to get used to the idea but not months to worry about it.

  • Sit down with her, in private, together. Make sure you have plenty of time for her.
  • Make what you say appropriate to her age and language abilities.
  • Tell her you make each other unhappy so are planning to live in separate houses.
  • Tell her how much you both love her and promise her that you'll both be very much part of her life.
  • Be prepared for her not to want to talk (come back to the subject when she's ready, don't force it if she's not)
  • Be loving and affectionate, recognise and accept her pain but don't anticipate it.
  • Don't guess what will concern her about the divorce, find out. (One child I heard about was distraught about their parents getting a divorce and eventually it was discovered they were worried about where their goldfish was going to live. Once that was sorted the child was happy).
  • Try to stress some positive things to focus on, like having a new bedroom, having her Dad and Mum to herself sometimes.

    Ex reducing contact with the children

    The father of my two kids (aged five and six years old) used to be very involved with the kids and has been having them for every other weekend. He has been flaky in the past, and has changed arrangements etc, which does rattle the kids, especially my boy (aged five) and my husband and I picked up the pieces and grit our teeth.

    Now my ex has said he only wants them one weekend a month. There is no contact between visits, despite them asking him to call and trying to call him (he doesn't pick up his phone).

    He's very difficult to get much sense out of and won't talk on the phone or in person, so this latest development was by text. He says he will tell them but won't tell me what he will say.

    I know I sound bitter and, frankly, I am. The kids are amazing and have forgiven him so much and it seems like he's just packing them off without a thought to their feelings. When I've tried to discuss the kids' development with him, especially any problems the kids are having, he doesn't want to know.

    I know this makes it easier for him to think his actions have no consequence. But this latest twist really worries me. He's a rubbish dad, but he's their dad and I genuinely think they will feel rejection on some level, especially if he doesn't have a good reason for decreasing the contact.

    My daughter is very sharp and won't accept a lame excuse and will keep pushing for more explanation. I want to raise this with him again so he gets his 'arguments' straight before telling the kids but it's so hard. Any tips for that would be great.

    It's a bumpy time for them anyway, they have a new brother or sister on the way, which they're thrilled about but must affect them on some level and we're all going to be moving area soon, which will of course have a knock on effect.
    thirdtimer

    Anne: This must be very tough but you sound like you're being really fair and understand exactly how important it is to try everything to keep your kids' dad in their lives.

    In my research for the book, many of the fathers cut off contact with their children but not one of the ones I spoke to did it for selfish reasons (although this was always the assumption of the mothers). All the fathers did it because they were hurting and trying to cut off the source of the pain or because they'd been given the impression by their ex and children that they weren't wanted anymore.

    Only you know him and the circumstances but this leads me to suspect that he's upset about something and seeing (and even speaking) to the children makes that upset worse for him. He wants to try to shut out what's causing him pain and bury himself in new social activities.

    So why is he suddenly upset? The most common reasons are:

  • Depression
  • Guilt (finding it difficult to cope with the guilt of the break up, whether he was responsible or not for the relationship ending).
  • Grief at the relationship ending (this often happens a long time after the actual separation). My ex and I both went through it many months (in my case years) after we split.
  • The children have said something that makes him feel rejected.
  • Jealousy at the ex showing additional signs of moving on (such as a pregnancy!). I've seen that happen even when men have been happily remarried for years (and were the ones who ended the marriage).

    The usual reaction to this jealousy is anger (so he may deliberately want to make things difficult for you) and a need to create some distance between you.

    None of this is your fault but it may mean that you'll need to find a way to create distance between you to help him recover. Don't accuse him of any of the above but think which is most likely to apply and then how you can help him.

    Try not to criticise him as that will just make him defensive. Tell him how much the kids love him and how important it is for them to see him more than once a month. Tell him you're keen to come to an agreement that suits everyone better. Would he like to have them more during holidays? Is there a way that the handover could be managed better so he doesn't have to come to your new (more distant) home?

    This last point will give him an easy let out (without embarrassing him) if the problem is that he doesn't want to see you.

    Throughout the discussion try to reinforce the idea that the children are a shared responsibility (equally his) and try not to assume that anything he's doing or saying is just to be difficult. Instead try to help him through this.

    If all this fails then keep the door open for when he does want to come back into their lives (e.g. always make sure he has your contact details). Most men do want to come back, once they recover emotionally, but then feel very unwanted so are too afraid to make the first move.

    Give the children as much of your love and time as you can and tell them that Dad loves them but is finding it difficult to see them as much as he'd like right now.

    You're right to worry about how the new baby will affect the children. There is a whole section in my book about that (and more on the above) so probably not worth repeating it here but it's good that you recognise it as a challenging time for them.